Subject: Re: ? about giant lathe (Noble & Lund 96 x30')




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Subject: Re: ? about giant lathe (Noble & Lund 96"x30')

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 05:57:22 GMT


As big lathes go this is a baby (well mid-range at best) I spent part

of my apprenticeship running a monster 108" swing dual bed ,dual

carriage, roll turning lathe, that would take 48 feet and 90 tons

between centers. Speeds ranged from 1 minute per rev to 12 rev per

minute. It took a crane and about an hour to change the position of

the four face plate jaws. Drive was DC and all controls were on a multi

button pendant...At one rev/ minute jogging speed you learned to true up

a job in two revolutions or less!!


The carriages each had a staircase up about eight feet from ground

level, then there was another staircase up to the top slide which had

about twelve feet of travel and could be set up to cut threads from 8

tpi to about 12" pitch!! One of the fun jobs was screw cutting the cable

ways on eight foot diameter x 14 foot long hoist winding drums. These

were a half round groove for a 1 1/2" dia. cable. Half the drum was

left hand thread the other half right hand pitch. Thats a half round

form tool 1 1/2 inches across cutting full width!..Screw-cutting!! On

some larger (longer) jobs you would have both carriageways machining at

once..that was fun!!!


Tools varied from HSS to carbide inserts and even some early cermets

for chilled iron rolls. Average insert size was 1 1/2" square x 1/2"

thick and held in tool holders up to six inches square. These were in

turn held down by a couple of huge straps with four nuts on each about

six inches across flats. The wrench was about eight feet long and had

to be brought up on the crane. I remember one job on a huge steam

turbine rotor where we strapped the head and turret from a bridgeport

mill onto the tool post to mill a key way.


This type of machine is used daily in heavy engineering works, steel

mills, shipyards arsenals etc. and their work includes the

aforementioned steam turbines, hydro electric generators, steel mill

rolls, gun barrels, monster reduction gears for aircraft carriers, oil

tankers etc.


I spent an interesting and informative six months running that machine

and then went on to a 42 foot diameter vertical boring machine and

thence to a 24 foot wide x 48 foot stroke planer. One thing I learned

was to plan the job ahead..mistakes were big and expensive!!


The other thing I learned was that I didn't want to spend the rest of my

life doing that...I still have one shoulder almost an inch lower than

the other and now, in my fifties I hurt all over, every day as a direct

result of the sheer "horse work" of running machines like that while I

was in my teens.


============

Subject: Re: Little Elevator/Big Lathe

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:14:14 GMT


The Millwrights,(riggers) if they are worth their salt, will find this

one a breeze! Standard practice is to drop the elevator to the

basement, open the doors and hoist the machine up the shaft..on end if

necessary. Yes they do drop them on occasion!! I saw the very first

Herbert CNC lathe dropped four stories..made a right mess of the

elevator. They may decide it is easier to go up the outside with a

crane and scoot it through the window.


My advice is to leave it to the professionals..if only for insurance

purposes.


I put a Smart and Brown Model A Toolrom lathe into my (then) townhouse

basement by dropping it vertically through a 24"x30" hole I cut in the

floor right inside the front door. I built two custon "A" frfames out of

4x4 lumber, one for outside and one for inside. The lathebed was split

from the base, which was the heaviest piece. Total weight close to a

ton.


Myself and two helpers had the hole cut, lathe in and the hole buttoned

up with carpet relaid inside an hour..before "She Who Must Be Obeyed"

came home from the mall. I never did tell her how I got the lathe in

there. OBTY it came out the same way in even less time..we were experts

by then!!


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: looking for 52100 alloy

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:21:26 GMT


You'll be real lucky to find it outside of custom rolled mill lots. When

and if you do you'll have a bunch of knifemakers lining up (or running

all over you). 52100 alloy is a specialised steel for bearings and a

favorite with some knifemakers. They have to forge blades out from

large balls, rollers or races. Good luck.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Bolt, thread and tap sizes reference

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:27:14 GMT


What you need are "ZEUS" charts ....standard in any machinist's box.

Dunno where you'd find them but when you do..let me know..I need to

replace mine.


Starrett do a single page chart too..try a distributor.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: #2 MT collets / Hex and Square

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:33:17 GMT


Hardinge will make hex., square, or any other shape you want in 2MT,

3MT 3C 5C and B&S.


You might try Myford in England..2MT collets are their standard...they

have a web address..try a search.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: how to bolt together to S-section I-beams

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:39:36 GMT


You use taper washers..they are available from where you buy your

steel. Don't bother to ask at Ace Hardware..they will look at you

funny.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: aligning holes in tube

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:34:30 GMT


The good 'ole eyeball will never let you down.


Assuming that you are using a drill press and know how to align and

clamp down a vee block to said drill press table.


Drill your first hole and swap ends. Now put as long a piece of close

fitting rod as you can get under the ceiling,through the first hole.

Drop a plumb line somewhere beyond it and eyball the rod to the plumb

line. It will be plenty close enough for almost any purposes.


This does assume that your drill press is somewhere close to being

perpendicular. You might want to eyeball it with the plumb line

first.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Auger screws; anyone know how to make them?????????????

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:20:53 GMT


Two ways I have used..depends on I/d to O/d and thickness of material.


Narrow flights (1 to 4 inches wide) can be rolled on edge from strip

stock. You may need custom grooved rollers.


For larger and thicker flights..flame cut a series of plate rings

(Annuli !) cut one side on centerline, heat and pull open to pitch

dimension..(axially that is). weld to next flight and repeat.


For really big ones, flame cut segments of a turn to save material.


I have built them (For continuous decanting centrifuges) with a core

dia 36'' , O/D of 60 inches, length 12 feet'' material..1/2"

stainless. Hard faced and ground to gage.


Don't want to make another!!


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: "I" beams as lathe beds etc.

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 04:53:59 GMT


One of the "top of the line" German CNC Lathes (GDF I think) Has a

bed/mainframe made of reinforced concrete with hardened steel ways

bonded in place. I did hear of one instance where the ways fell off.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Help with 4 Jaw Chuck

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 00:22:57 GMT


It is not easy to figure out, from your description , exactly what the

problem is..but it sounds like a bent screw.


Remove all four jaws. You will notice that the screws have a necked

section that runs in a forked insert. Look at the back of the chuck

and you may see four round plugs. If not, remove the backplate and you

should see them.


Using a narrow, flat ended punch , and from the front of the chuck,

gently tap the forked plugs out and the screws should slip out of their

holes.


Check the screws and straighten if required. Make sure the jaws are a

good sliding fit.


Pop the screws back in and tap the forked plugs in from the back..DON'T

GO TOO DEEP Or the screws will bind. Reassemble jaws and backplate.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Mounting a back plate on a three jaw chuck

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:03:33 GMT


Cutting a step to suit the recess in the back of the chuck is certainly

the "textbook" way.

However, it may not be the "best" way!


I always mount my 3-jaws without a locating spigot and drill rather

oversized clearance holes for the mounting bolts. That way you can ease

off the bolts and tap any particular job into dead alignment. (don't

forget to tighten the bolts up again before turning)


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: MSC nice guys

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:43:31 GMT


MSC _are_nice guys (and Gals) to deal with.

I'm fortunate in that I live in Atlanta and can nip around the perimeter

to their main distribution center (not in rush hour!!)

Service is quick, competent and very friendly..nothing is too much

trouble. Never yet ordered anything that was out of stock and not ready

for me when I arrived thiry minutes after placing a phone order.

Prices and quality are more than competitive.

Specials are really a good deal, but their regular prices are usually as

good or better than other suplpiers "specials"

There is always something "tasty" on the "scratch and dent" table in the

store, which makes each visit an adventure.

I have had only one return so far and that was done without question or

quible.

These people are to be commended and encouraged..they get 90% of my

business!

I haven't been able to spring a new catalogue out of them..yet!


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Stupid Question

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:33:34 GMT


Scott S. Logan wrote:


> If I've got this straight, to cut a 1.75mm pitch with a 6mm pitch lead

> screw, you would need a threading dial with some multiple of 7 teeth

> in the gear. (6mm x 7 turns=42mm and 1.75mm x 24 turns=42mm)

>

> To cut 1.25mm, you would need some multiple of 5. (6mm x 5 turns=30mm

> and 1.25mm x 24 turns=30mm)


This is precisely what I have on my Maximat Super II


It is fitted with an 8tpi leadscrew and a thread indicator dial with three

gears..14, 15 and 16 tooth which can be engaged at will with the leadscrew. For

Imperial pitches only the 16t gear is ever used and pickup is the usual 1,2,4 or

1,2 or 1only, depending on the pitch. With metric threads I am stuck with the same

pickup problems as anyone else with an imperial lead screw.


However, if I had a lot of metric threads to cut, I would change to a 3mm pitch

leadscrew. I would then be able, by ringing the changes on the three pickup

gears, to get 1,2,4 or 1,2 or 1,3 or 1 pickup on the following range of metric

pitches:

0.175, 0.35, 0.4, 0.45, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 1.25, 1.75, 2, 2.25, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and 5.0

(this according to the instruction manual)


It is significant that 0.5 and 1mm pitch are missing from this list.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Stupid Question

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:52:02 GMT


Robert Bastow wrote:

However, if I had a lot of metric threads to cut, I would change to a 3mm pitch

leadscrew. I would then be able, by ringing the changes on the three pickup


> gears, to get 1,2,4 or 1,2 or 1,3 or 1 pickup on the following range of metric

> pitches:

> 0.175, 0.35, 0.4, 0.45, 0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 1.25, 1.75, 2, 2.25, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and 5.0

> (this according to the instruction manual)

>

> It is significant that 0.5 and 1mm pitch are missing from this list.

>

>


On re-reading the manual (which appears to have been translated from the original

German by a first year Chinese student of Arabic, with English as a fourth

language!!)..I _think_ that pickup on 0.5 and 1.0mm pitch can be done at any position.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Casting a sailboat keel

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 07:10:31 GMT


Alan Shinn wrote:


> Richard Sewell wrote:

> >

> > In article <360B7F4C.E7E694CB@mindspring.com>, gashmore@mindspring.com

> > (Glenn Ashmore) wrote:

> >

> > > Steve Rayner wrote:

> > >

> > > > How about sealing the drain, and using the back of the tub as a spout.

> > > > Pivot the back. Rig a tripod of heavy steel tubing over the front.

> > > > Use a

> > > > chain block, or tripod and boom to lift the other end from a distance.

> > > > Make sure that the tub can't tip over sideways!

> > >

> > > Considering how much I am abusing this tub already, I don't even want

> > > to tickle it while it is

> > > hot.

> >

> > Incidentally, with all this talk of plugs, I've started to worry about the

> > force you'll need to apply to lift a plug against the pressure of the lead

> > above it. It'll be equal to the weight of the lead cylinder directly above

> > the plug, if you see what I mean.

> >

> > Richard Sewell rsewell@cix.co.uk

>

> Or at least a plug the diameter of the drain.

> For this same reason, an iron ball would not float once completely

> immersed (you would have to hold it down for awhile with your myrtle

> branch). Try this with water and a tennis ball in your (real) bathtub.

> --

>

> Looking forward:

> Alan Shinn

>

> Experience the

> beginnings of microscopy.

> Make or buy your own replica

> of one of Antony van Leeuwenhoek's microscopes.

> visit http://www.sirius.com/~alshinn/


I strongly recommend setting up a screw (threaded rod about 3/4" dia should do

it) to raise the plug with some control and give yourself a fighting chance to

throttle the flow or close it off if something starts to go wrong (remember

murphy?!!)


Another consideration is the bubble of air that will be explosively ejected from

the flow pipe when you open the valve..you need to control, and protect against,

that.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Not a great weekend (and some car tips)

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 07:25:04 GMT


Fitch R. Williams wrote:


> I used to love heading out to the barn to do chores on those cold

> winter evenings when the snow was falling in the soft light of the

> barn pole lamp, made crunching and squeaking sounds as I walked, and

> the cold dry air tingled the hair in my nose. Havn't experienced that

> in a looooong time.

>

> Thanks for the plesant memory.

>

> Fitch

> In So. Cal.


Fitch...you're sick!!! 8^)


I lived for twelve cold years in the (lake effect) snow belt of the Niagara

Peninsular before finally escaping back to the sunny south (Atlanta) Yes I

know we get tornados and the fringe effects of hurricanes...I don't care so

long as I don't have to shovel it!!


I don't do snow any more..my family knows that robins, holly and Santa are

ok on Christmas cards...but no snow!!!


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Not a great weekend (and some car tips)

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:55:24 GMT


Fitch R. Williams wrote:

Once or twice a year - most but not all years - we get a tiny bit of snow

here. It lasts about 24 hours to 36 hours max, the FWY is shut down, then

melts.


Two or three years ago we had the "Blizzard of the Century" here in

"Hotlanta".....4 to 6 inches..which would have been classed as a light

sprinkle in Ontario.


Funniest thing I ever saw was the first snowfall in Cairo, Egypt for about 25

years. About a sixteenth of and inch that stayed all of ten minutes! But in a

city of eleven million people who had never seen it or driven in it, with an

_accumulative_ total of 1/8th inch of tire tread between them and not a single

windshield wiper in the city, it was a hoot to watch!


On a normal ,dry day there is a major collision at ever major intersection,

every hour, on the hour. You can imagine that with the snow it was "Fred

Karno's Karnage"!


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Not a great weekend (and some car tips)

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:17:16 GMT


DoN. Nichols wrote:


> Robert Bastow wrote:

>

> I would have replied by e-mail, but that e-mail address looks like a

> spam-proof one, so I'm going for the newsgroup instead.

>

> >Funniest thing I ever saw was the first snowfall in Cairo, Egypt for about 25

> >years. About a sixteenth of and inch that stayed all of ten minutes! But in a

> >city of eleven million people who had never seen it or driven in it, with an

> >_accumulative_ total of 1/8th inch of tire tread between them and not a single

> >windshield wiper in the city, it was a hoot to watch!

>

> Especially given the typical speeds and inter-vehicle clearance

> there. :-)

>

> >On a normal ,dry day there is a major collision at ever major intersection,

> >every hour, on the hour. You can imagine that with the snow it was "Fred

> >Karno's Karnage"!

>

> Interesting. I was *told* (by someone in the tourist industry) that

> there were never any accidents, and I started looking at the vehicles as

> they whizzed by. I saw *no* crumpled metal, or signs of crumpled metal

> having been "fixed", even though quite a few of the vehicles had been in use

> long enough so the paint was wearing thin, and there was a light film of

> rust forming on some of the vehicles.

>

> So -- since what you say agrees with what I felt *must* be the case,

> what happens to the victims? Are all the vehicles totaled in these wrecks?

>

> I was rather amazed at the skills of the taxi drivers, with what

> felt like a fore-and-aft clearance of 1-3 feet, and a lateral clearance of

> 8-12 inches -- at speeds around 50+ MPH.

>

> Thanks,

> DoN.


All I can say Don is that either, Cairo has changed a LOT in the past twnty years,

or,we are talking about a different Cairo.


The carnage was horrendous. At almost every intersection you would come across a

high speed, total write-off wreck and bodies. Almost without exception there would

be

a black and white Fiat taxi involved.


So far as dings and dents went..you could NEVER find a car without plenty. I once

had a

bet on with a friend that he couldn't find a car without a dent. After a whole days

searching

he dragged me triuphantly into a new car showroom and presented a gleaming, brand

new

black Mercedes. We walked around it and sure enough there was a ding in the

door!!!


My scariest trip was hammering across the desert road from Cairo to Alexandria in a

clapped

out diesel Peugeot 504 with eight people in it and four bald tires. One a cross

ply, one a steel

belt and two different sized/makes of textile belts!


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: Not a great weekend (and some car tips)

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 04:37:38 GMT


DoN. Nichols wrote:


> Wonderful! I figured that the first part of the vehicle to fail

> *must* be the horn,


They don't have horn buttons....just an on switch....or wired direct to the ignition.

The cacophany of blaring horns, mixed with braying donkeys starts at five am and goes on

twenty two hours a day


> and the brakes probably lasted for the life of the

> vehicle. :-)

>

> BRAKES?????

>

> --

>


I once passed an interesting hour watching a pavement crafts man in the "Souks" (Bazaar).


He was sitting on a carpet on the ground holding a Ford piston between his bare feet

while he filed off about 60 thou on diameter to fit an old Mercedes engine. I have no

doubt in my mind that it worked perfectly when he had done. Those street craftsmen were

incredible.


Robert Bastow


============

Subject: Re: The perfect shop: floors

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:22:33 GMT


Steve Rayner wrote:


> A wooden floor is best, with the machines mounted on raised concrete slabs

> that extend just above the floor.

>

> Scott A. Moore (samiamREMOVE@cisco.com) wrote:

> : Oh, well, its two months off, but its on my mind!

>

> : I am planning to insulate and roof in my new shop garage, but

> : I also know that concrete floors suck the heat right out of

> : the air. I can't think of a whole lot of surfaces that are

> : appropriate for machining !


I second the wooden floors bit. I am slowly building my perfect shop in the

basement(with slightly damp concrete floor). Main bitch is the back and leg

problems caused by hard concrete floor, plus the dust and damp problem.

After a lot of research I decided to go with a fairly springy arrangement and I

love it.


My procedure is to first seal the floor with a thick coat of black roofing

"tar"..it is far cheaper than the floor sealants and seems to work just as

well. Over this, while it is wet I lay a layer of thick roofing paper. On this

I lay 2 x 2 pressure treated sleepers, first in a 4' x 8' perimeter and then

cross to divide in to eight.. 2 ' square sections. I tried one area with only

3 dividers and that (in front of the bench) is maybe a little too springy.


The perimeter bearers are pinned with a couple or three concrete nails, the

rest are glued down with "liquid nails" This is done while the sealant is

still wet so that the few nails will be self sealing On top of this goes 3/4"

tongue and grooved, flooring grade, plywood which is nailed to the sleepers.


Under areas where I placed benches and light machines I added additional wood

blocking...To the point of being almost solid under the table saw and jointer.

I tried the same under my Maximat Super II lathe and it was a no-go. Solution

was to mark VERY carefully the position of the jacking screws (by screwing them

down into the wooden floor). Move the lathe to one side and drill 2" diameter

holes through the plywood. into these I dropped close fitting 2'' diameter

steel plugs, faced to the floor thickness (2 1/4'') in length and into one end

of which I had put a substantial drill dimple to suit the jacking screws.

Moved lathe back and leveled it...solid as a rock!!..with a nice "springy"

floor all around it.


Proof of the effectivness of the water proofing came a week later. While we

were away on vacation the neighborhood was hit by a tornado. Missed us by a

few yards!! But the power was out for several hours and without the sump pump

the basement flooded to a depth of one inch..ie below the new floor.

Absolutely no loss or damage to any equipment or materials..Phew!!


As of yet I haven't decided on the best finish for the floor but I'm hankering

after prefinished oak parquet (surprisingly cheaper than vinyl) for the wood

working area and the hardest, thickest vinyl tiles I can find (like the old

"Battleship Linoleum in the metal shop. I like tiles because they can be

replaced if worn or damaged. Expensive? Yes but I worked long and hard to be

able to spend a lot of time in the future in MY "Perfect Shop"


I would welcome other suggestions on a suitable finish for the metal area..I'm

kinda committed to the structure!


Do you know the difference between "involved" and "committed"?


Its kinda like bacon and eggs.....The chicken is involved, the pig is

committed!!


Robert Bastow


Don't force it...Use a bigger hammer!


============

Subject: Re: The perfect shop: floors

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 04:58:16 GMT


Where I "served my time"....in a hundred year old, multi-acreage sized,

engineering plant..all the floors were wooden "sets" These are end

grain wooden blocks set on a rammed earth base. Very durable, non slip,

"warm" (relative term..the shop could be well below freezing during

winter!!), tough as old boots, yet gentle on dropped parts. Added

advantage that chocks could be spiked down to stop things rolling or

slipping.


In machine shops we were provided with wooden duck boards for the

operators to stand on.

A good one would be strips of softwood say 1/1/2" x 3/4" x 6ft long;

nailed at 3/4" spacing onto four, underneath, cross battens of the same

section and about 30" wide.


These are resilient, thus easy on the back and legs, allow swarf (chips)

and coolant to drain, and provide a non slip surface.


As a by-word I would implore all machinists to ensure that the area

around machinery is kept clean, dry and free of obstacles. Always know

your escape route if something goes wrong. I once witnessed an

apprentice, with his hands in his pockets, trip and fall head first

onto the table of a large, rotating, VTL (Vertical Turning Lathe).

I had to help pick up the bits!!


Wood floors do seem to stand up reasonably well and the advantages

outweigh the disadvantages in my honest opinion. Indeed we found the

most durable and comfortable footwear was wooden soled, leather upper,

clogs shod with clog irons and nails. Your feet would remain snug and

comfortable for 16 hour double shifts and the uppers wore out before the

soles!


Robert Bastow (Who is not as old as I maybe sound)


============

Subject: Re: Interrupted Screw Threads?

From: Robert Bastow

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:02:20 GMT


> OK, may I muddy the waters a little here :)

>

> The process described works fine for *single* interrupted threads.

> But look more closely at that artillery piece (especially a large

> one). Chances are, it's not a single thread cut at 90 degree points,

> but *two* interleaved threads cut out at 60 degrees.

> So moving around the circumference, one sees:

>

> 1. Large diameter thread

> 2. Smaller diameter thread

> 3. Cut clean away

> 4. Repeat from [1]

>

> When disengaged, the small (male) thread can pass clean through the

> large female, while the cut-away section passes clean through the

> small thread.

> The closed breech now has engaged threads over 66% of its

> circumference, not 50%. Result: a stronger gun.

>

> Now please, how to cut those threads (esp. the interior one)?

>

> -- Dave Brooks
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