General Challenge Discussions Topic Part II




НазваниеGeneral Challenge Discussions Topic Part II
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~NS~

From: GarlandG | Posted: 10/14/2005 7:46:48 AM | Message Detail

Equip the Bolt Armlet or the Aurora Armlet instead, and you'll drain Magic Breath. The Dragon Armlet only halves the damage.

From: JGresko | Posted: 10/14/2005 7:57:05 AM | Message Detail

I am just past Midgard area, doing:


Solo Char

No Materia

Initial Equips

No Accesories

Lv1 Limits.


I'll keep ya'll updated.

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Sometimes I really wonder why the hell I spend my life playing video ga...WOOOOOOOMG LVL UP!11!

From: Blitz_Ace470 | Posted: 10/14/2005 3:51:42 PM | Message Detail

Indeed, they would.


So, if I use Dragon and Blood Fang, Jenova won't be able to do anything? Awesome. Then I just hack at her to death.

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Yuna: Don't worry. I can fly! *falls off palace*

Yuna: ...... ****! NOT IFRIT! - Arbron

From: dinky12 | Posted: 10/14/2005 9:27:21 PM | Message Detail

Anyone got any tips for how to beat carry armor on an SCIENM challenge? I have already had 17 attempts, Cloud Lvl 67, and i got omni slash. But i always die when im get him down to about 6000 hp left. Any tips would be useful.

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Zuru zuru zuru, zuru zuru zuru-Tifa FF7 Advent children

From: Ragnarok500 | Posted: 10/15/2005 1:59:01 AM | Message Detail

Hey, Paltheos here. I just completed my latest SSCC for BoFIII, and I thought I'd try a FFVII challenge. Honestly, I've wanted to try one for a while, >_> but I've been tied up in completing my other commitments (primarily, updating my current challenge guides to fully complete status).


Due to my inexperience with challenges in this game, a pure ESO seems unrealistic. IIRC, someone else gave this challenge a try in its strictest form (no battle commands other than Enemy Skill ever, starting as soon as you leave Midgar on Disc 1). I'm not sure exactly what came of it (on-and-off lurking on my part), but I do remember that the seasoned attempter stated that it had been very difficult (near impossible at some points), so I'm loosening the rules for my more lenient ESO.


My ESO:

1) Other than the exceptions mentioned below, Enemy Skill is the only in-battle command to ever be used;

2) Attack, Limit, Change, and Defend are all locked (redundant, yeah, but just makin' it clear);

3) Escaping from random encounters is permitted;

4) Manipulate is temporarily and circumstantially unlocked, only to be used to gain additional Enemy Skills, after which point it will be locked;

4a) Furthermore, Manipulate is only to be equipped during Enemy Skill pursuits;

5) All Materia other than Enemy Skill and Manipulate may never be equipped;

6) Item is likewise temporarily and circumstantially unlocked, but only HP and MP restoratives may be used and only until White Wind and Magic Hammer are obtained, respectively (Mind you that I'm not out to abuse these items and the such and will keep their usage at a minimum);

7) The above take effect immediately after Motor Ball.


However, I have a few questions:

1) Is Aardvark's Enemy Skill FAQ completely dependable (at least in terms of how soon and from whom Enemy Skills can be learned)? It looks pretty good to me, but I'm just checking with the vets to be sure. >_>

2) By tradition, I have started my own topics for the following reasons: a) I use the topics as a foundation of the consequent FAQ I'll write; b) I tend to write rather lengthy descriptions of my ventures (sarcasm, jubilation, and random colloquialisms included) that can span up to several posts (circumstances pending <_<); c) This is the first board I've visited that has a GCD topic, so I thought asking first would probably be a good idea: Should I create my own topic or contain my activities within this one?

3) Opinions on the challenge, excluding a brief "It's too easy"?

Thanks.


~Ragnarok500/Paltheos

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The Not So Legendary Challenge Guide Writer.

"Macbeth Act 5, Scene 5, L19-L28" - Nihilism isn't fun.

From: dinky12 | Posted: 10/15/2005 4:03:53 AM | Message Detail

Well i beat carry armor after 38 attempts without any tips or help :P i was playin for about 3 hours straight.

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Zuru zuru zuru, zuru zuru zuru-Tifa FF7 Advent children

From: TsukiNoNeko | Posted: 10/15/2005 8:27:38 AM | Message Detail

For completion of the game using Enemy Skills, you need only: Big Guard, White Wind, Magic Hammer, Magic Breath, Aqualung, Angel Whisper.

Add Frog song to make some battles easy.


If you don't have experience with Low Levels, try just escape from any random and non-mandatory battles.


To add challenge use IE(Initial Equip) + NA (No Accessory).


To learn Magic Hamer and some other important skills, you MUST have Manipulate.


So your challenge will be : PLL (Pseudo Low Levels ^^)

NI (No Items), IE (Initial Equip), NA (No Accessory), CMO (Command Materia only[ Manipulate+Sense+Enemy Skill).


Banning limits and attack is bad idea. Demons Gate have very HIGH Magic Defence, and magic will deal TOO small damage. And you need use Healing Wind for healing before getting White Wind.


Try to learn Enemy Skills in battles with less EXP.

White Wind -> Zemzelett x 1

Big Guard -> Beachplug x 3

Magic Hammer -> Razor Weed x 2, Tail Vault

Aqualung -> Harpy x 1

Magic Breath -> Stylva x 1

Angel Whisper -> Pollensalta x 1

Frog Song ->Touch Me x 1 (Gongaga)


You can post progress here, we doing same (But not now ^^;)


2 Dinky12, what strategy you have used ?

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Emerald Weapon's worst nightmare ^^

From: dinky12 | Posted: 10/15/2005 7:38:13 PM | Message Detail

Well to beat carry armor, i started the battle with omnislash and luckily took out one of the arms. Then i just kept throwing swift bolts at the other arm until it died.Then i kept throwin swift bolts at the body until i got omnislash. So then i omnislashed his shiny metal ass and he died.


Cloud Lvl 71 ( i leveled up a few levels before i went and tried him again)

38 attempts

And i played for about 3-4 hours straight tryin to kill that bastard.

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Zuru zuru zuru, zuru zuru zuru-Tifa FF7 Advent children

From: Thundaka | Posted: 10/15/2005 7:43:19 PM | Message Detail

1. As far as I know, yes.


2. Go ahead and post here. Length is not a concern; some of the updates Garland and I have posted take up three or four posts. Garland will archive a topic whenever it reaches 500, and the more such topics he's made the happier he is. :)


3. The rules seem a little amorphous. Though it's perfectly reasonable for challenges to have exceptions--No Summon and No Overdrives in FFX must be temporarily ignored to continue with the storyline, for example--I'm always wary about challenges which make these exceptions because it would be too difficult to beat certain enemies otherwise. It just seems against the spirit of a challenge to do that. Then again, it's your game; don't let me stop you if that's what you really want to do.


If no one has any objections, I'm going to start writing the LLNIIENACMO FAQ. I'll do another test playthrough for this. I'll try to stick as close to the rules of the challenge as I can, though I'm not above temporarily using Restore if the Gunners or Motor Ball prove to be even more impossible than they were last time. (I'm in the train graveyard now, with 60 Mono Drive battles completed. As you can see, I'm not going to be putting this game away anytime soon.)

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"When you take a squirrel out of water, it contrives a plot against you." - West African proverb

From: Ragnarok500 | Posted: 10/15/2005 9:09:32 PM | Message Detail

>_< Tsuki hath changed my challenge. Granted, for good reasons since it is quite easy as is, but still... while I'm sure I could give it a shot as my analytical skills are up to the task, my lack of familiarity with the deepest intricacies of the game would still be a big pitfall for me to overcome when trying to beat a frontier challenge. While buffing up my own challenge doesn't sound like a bad idea, going to an extreme like that seems an unrealistic expectation of me at the moment (maybe in the future though).


Thundaka, yeah... the rules are clear but somewhat amorphous, and now that I've looked over some material regarding FFVII, I don't like some of the scenarios that are turning up. It would probably be best for me to figure out a way to create a... less amorphous set of rules with fewer pitfalls that's within my present skill range.


In any case, Thundaka, after reading through your LLNIIENA Challenge Guide, while I am rather impressed with your completion of it, I think a LLNIIENACMO really is impossible *isn't just saying that as one of those people who just read the description and are like, "OMG! thats imposible!"*. Some of the primary hampering ramifications of adding CMO onto the end:


1) Barret has no form of healing against Dyne and will die.

2) With no revival capabilities aside from inns for most of the game, the sheer degree of required luck from numerous randoms and bosses is somewhat difficult to conceive.

3) Without Revive, you'll actually have to fight Gi Nattak, a task which sounds rather discouraging.

4) Safer's looking pretty nasty without Hades = Added Effect on somebody's armor slots. This only looks survivable if the %chance for both silence and confusion from Supernova are low.


Admiteddly, the last three reasons only add to my doubt due to problems simply caused by probability (and perhaps also includes more concrete obstacles of which I'm not aware, as my analysis of the LLNIIENA was cursory at best), making them moot, but the first issue seems rather concrete and impossible to get by... without making some sort of exception to grant Barret some healing powers. Other than that one problem, it seems quite doable, albeit highly reliant on luck for certain prolonged periods.


PS: Thundaka, as said before and per your request, I read through the guide, albeit briefly. My main issue is that you tend to stop listing materia setups near the end of the guide for reasons unbeknownst to me. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.


*begins rumination upon his own rules*

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The Not So Legendary Challenge Guide Writer.

"Macbeth Act 5, Scene 5, L19-L28" - Nihilism isn't fun.

From: Sanosuke92 | Posted: 10/15/2005 9:44:13 PM | Message Detail

I made this challange for beginners


SLLIeC


(Somewhat low level Initial equipment Faq)


Why somewhat. Cause the Lowest level will be higer then 28 maybe like 32 or so cause its 4 beginners.

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Nintendogs- Cid, Vivi, and Cloud/ AC town-Agrabah

Games currently playing- Final Fantasy VI

From: mabauti | Posted: 10/15/2005 9:52:07 PM | Message Detail

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: TsukiNoNeko | Posted: 10/15/2005 10:06:27 PM | Message Detail

I think a LLNIIENACMO really is impossible

But it was already done. Read through first post carefully. And I myself in the middle of second disk. Ready to beat Rude at Rocket Town.

1) Barret has no form of healing against Dyne and will die.

You will have to Beta at this point. To learn Beta, you will need Planet Protector.

2) With no revival capabilities aside from inns for most of the game, the sheer degree of required luck from numerous randoms and bosses is somewhat difficult to conceive.

You will have a Pulse of Life Aerith's limit break. But some battles is REALLY luck based. Even Motor Ball battle will require luck and skills at Minigame.

3) Without Revive, you'll actually have to fight Gi Nattak, a task which sounds rather discouraging.

He is not hard, Pulse of Life and White Wind will help here.

4) Safer's looking pretty nasty without Hades = Added Effect on somebody's armor slots. This only looks survivable if the %chance for both silence and confusion from Supernova are low.

Luck based battle, but already beaten.

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Emerald Weapon's worst nightmare ^^

From: Thundaka | Posted: 10/15/2005 10:18:56 PM | Message Detail

Ragnarok500: Thanks for the input. The materia requirements for those battles are pretty simple, so I thought it would be alright to save space by listing them in the text instead. If it's really a problem, I'm willing to change it.


I don't blame you for thinking LLNIIENACMO is impossible. I was inclined to think so myself, until I read Garland's strategies about how each battle could be completed. To answer your objections:


1. You're right, Dyne is a tough one. That's why we learn Beta from the Midgar Zolom, so he has an attack powerful enough to kill Dyne. (This is also the reason we originally decided to learn Planet Protector, though it and Pulse of Life prove enormously useful in later battles as well.) Despite Dyne's high magical defense, two Betas are still enough to take off half his health.


Combined with two Big Shots, two physical attacks, and a Flamethrower, this is enough to take him out in seven turns. IIRC Barret has about 600 HP at that point, due to the extra levels from learning Planet Protector, so that is enough. (Dyne's attacks do 70-90 damage each.) Of course, there are still some potential problems--if Dyne attacks before Barret, uses his final attack, gets a critical hit, or one of Barret's attacks misses you may be in trouble--but if you know what you're doing it shouldn't take more than a few attempts.


2. A lot of resetting is required, as with most LL challenges. That said, very few bosses can kill you if you put up a Big Guard before their first turn. As for random encounters, there are only a few random enemies that are capable of killing your characters in one shot; Frog Song will incapacitate most of them, and with Big Guard and/or Sadness many of them can even be survived if you're properly prepared. Since save points are fairly close together in this game, this should rarely be an issue.


3. White Wind and Pulse of Life make Gi Nattak easy. The Soul Fires can be problematic at first; but after they run out of MP (after 10-12 castings of Fire2), they are no longer a danger. Beta and White Wind both do great damage against Gi Nattak, and you can use Pulse of Life to restore MP and revive anyone Gi Nattak has killed.


4. In the dozens of times Safer used Supernova on me, I only saw it inflict status effects on all three characters once. (Assuming you're not immune to any of them, Confusion, Silence, and Slow are always inflicted together.) Most of the time it either only affects one character or doesn't inflict any status effects.

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"When you take a squirrel out of water, it contrives a plot against you." - West African proverb

From: Ragnarok500 | Posted: 10/15/2005 10:28:43 PM | Message Detail

But it was already done. Read through first post carefully. And I myself in the middle of second disk. Ready to beat Rude at Rocket Town.


*checks*


LLNIIENACMO - Me, Thundaka


Damn my blindness. >_> *runs*
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